parenting question
Not to turn this into a parenting blog, but holy crap I'm losing my mind. Any of you with children older than Joe go through a period at ~16 months where your child will not go to sleep without major fussing/crying? Joe has never been a great sleeper, but has been pretty good. Now, he wakes during the night and resists going back to sleep. He also resists being put to sleep initially. I'm not sure if he's figuring out the power of his own cries or what, but it's starting to take it's toll. I'm turning into a crazy(ier) person! If you have gone through the same thing, please tell me that it rights itself quickly. If you have not, please pretend. Thanks!
11 comments:
I give you: Reva at 13 months
http://papsdorf.blogspot.com/2007/10/crying.html
It was horrible and it seemed to be horrible at least a few times a week for months. (I'm sorry if that depresses you.) However, through seemingly nothing we did (that we could discern), she pretty much stopped a month or so before Clare was born...at 20 or 21 months. She still chatters and "reads" for a long time when she goes to bed, but we just leave her in there and eventually she goes to sleep, usually without any real crying.
I hope that makes you feel better!
As a disclaimer, the Mazzuccos are pretty tough in disciplining our kids, so our tactics may seem extreme.
With that said, when Aidan was that age, he required a lot of help going to bed. We didn't want that to be an issue when Wesley was born, so we put him through "boot camp." We went through the bedtime routine, and told him it was bedtime, and left him in his crib until he fell asleep. That night, he cried for 90 minutes (those were some long minutes). The next night, he cried for 70 minutes. The third night, he cried for 5-10 minutes. Then he didn't cry going to bed anymore.
Not that long afterwards, we did the same thing for nap time, with similar results.
With Wesley, he was always a great sleeper, so he was much older when he started exerting his will on us. For him, it was standing up in his crib. When he stood up, he couldn't fall asleep. By that time, we were using a spoon for discipline, so we had to show him the spoon to convince him that it would be best to lay himself down.
Ben, being the third, gets the worst treatment. He's ~3 months older than Joe. There have been times when he was defiant, and wouldn't lay down, so I had to hold him down (hand gently but firmly on his back) until he gave up and went to sleep. Later, when he started to whine in bed, we would get him out of bed and rap him on the thigh with the spoon. He doesn't whine in bed at all now, even if he doesn't fall asleep. He'll just play and talk to himself if he's not tired.
We had to be very careful with these tactics, though, because we had to discern whether our kids were being defiant or just having trouble sleeping. It's pretty cruel to discipline a child for being unable to sleep, and it doesn't exactly build trust. But when we knew that they could sleep, and they just weren't willing to do it, we were pretty stern with them, and it was effective for each of them.
We've done similarly with kids waking up in the middle of the night, but more so when much older (~3 years old). And, in those cases, you have to make sure they don't have a fever or something else that is keeping them from sleeping.
We did teach our kids not to cry out in their cribs until 6:30 AM by using similar tactics as above, but I don't think we were able to do it until at least Joe's current age. I'll explain those tactics later today if I have a chance.
Betsy corrected me regarding my initial post: Aidan was only 4 months old when we first instituted "boot camp," and we were using the spoon with each of our kids by the time they were Joe's age. The rest of the post is accurate, though.
Nonetheless, the efforts we took to get our kids to stay in bed in the AM were at about Joe's age, so maybe they will help.
Here's the story:
At some point we decided we would lose our sanity if our kids kept getting up at 5:30. This decision came just about the time we weaned them (just over one year old).
Every morning, we would have a toddler crying in his crib at 5:30 (typically because he had been previously being fed at that time, and now he was hungry and confused). I would go in and tell him to go back to bed (not Betsy b/c she had been the food source), and that he couldn't get up yet. We insisted that he lay back down and be quiet. For at least one of our boys, we had to use the spoon to prevent continual crying because it might wake up the other kids. But for at least one, I think we just let him cry. If he were still crying, or if he woke up again after, say, 10 or 15 minutes, then we would go get him out. Over time, he would get up later and later, eventually leading to a 6:30 wake-up time. It probably took a few weeks to accomplish, but now we can just go in at 3AM if Ben wakes up, and say, "Ben, it's not 6:30 yet. Go back to bed." So there were a few weeks in which I was up at 5:30 and Betsy was not sleeping b/c she had a loud toddler, but in the long run, it paid off.
Hope this helps.
Dan
P.S. It does get better.
Dan and KM,
Thank you for your advice and letting me know that I am not alone. I'm definitely a softy Mom and I realized that I'm likely a large part of the problem. So, starting last night, I decided to impose a self-ban from Joe's room from when I put him to sleep until 6 am (hopefully I'll be able to stick to it). It takes him a little while to fall asleep (like Dan's observation, tonight was shorter than last night). But, last night in the middle of the night ~3 am, I heard him saying "Mamamamamama" and forced myself to stay in bed, chanting over and over again, a wet diaper/etc won't kill him. He called for me a couple of times and then went back to sleep. I was AMAZED. Typically, I go in and change him, give him a couple of sips of milk, put him down, he cries, I get back up, repeat a billion times. It took less than 4 minutes for him to go back to sleep last night when I left him alone. It's very difficult not to go to him, but it's definitely made easier with outcomes like that...we'll see how tonight goes! Here's hoping.
Dan's right about making sure they're ok. Reva was sick about five days out of every seven for almost four months after she started day care and I'm sure that contributed to her sleeping problems. She also has a very sensitive gag reflex so we could not really let her cry; she'd throw up and that was much worse. (Thank goodness, she's starting to get a lot better in that department, though we still have problems. She threw up just last week after breakfast.)
Even now, we almost always go in if one of our kids cries out for us, but if it's the older two, we just say, "You're fine. It's time to rest." (Reva likes to strip and can't get her clothes back on in the dark. We learned the hard way.)
you guys are really helping me look forward to our baby girl's sleep time.
Jon, they're all different. Clare almost always sleeps at night like a dream. And sometimes, she goes to sleep if I just lay her down somewhere! It's wonderful!
Hi everyone, I"m posting from Rob's login for now. The only advice I have to offer is from my little experience with a 16 week old. However, the results early on have been great and will hopefully continue on through the toddler years.
Start with letting them "cry it out" early on. Of course go through the check list of, wet diaper, feed, burped etc. and if you've done all the above then let them cry it out if it's nap time or bedtime. They will soon catch on within a few days, a week at most and you both will be happier.
I also recommend keeping the feeding times on a schedule that way their hunger and sleep cycles regulate.
I know this sounds like advice for an infant and not a toddler who is starting to test the will of his parents, but I think if these methods are started early on it may help as they get older. I'll let you know when Jaya is 16 months :).
The books that have also helped me are, "Baby Wise" AND, "The 90 minute Baby Sleep Program". I know there have been critics against Baby Wise but I've found that by reading BOTH books, it has given me a very balanced and healthy perspective on what to do.
Jaya has been sleeping through the nights and naps since 13 weeks, and no she hasn't been a good sleeper. It's just taken patience and consistency on our part to develop it. Just remember, you're the parent. When it's time for bed or a nap, tuck them in, give them a kiss and close the door.
Good Luck to you, and those new parents to be.
Devon~
Kristin,
I just have one thought to add. That is right around the age when all my mine started needing less sleep. They all gave up morning naps around 16-18 months old, and I know that was right around when we pushed back Eliza's bedtime at night because she just wasn't tired at 7/7:30 anymore (only to 8, with the older girls.) Just a thought. I think if you try to make them go to bed when they aren't tired, it just frustrates them. I don't know if that's the issue with Joe or not, though. Kids will certainly fight bedtime even if they are tired. I also don't think that its always a good idea to expect them to play in bed - I want my kids to associate bed with sleeping, not playing.
I feel that I should post on this, but I am going to tread very lightly. Parenting is very personal, especially in the area of sleep. Everyone does it differently, and everyone has to do it the way they think is right. I think most parents are quite passionate about their way, so I am not going to go there.
Here are my thoughts about Joe --
16 months can be a very difficult age. I think it is frustrating for boys, especially, as they tend to want to express themselves verbally, and often are not quite able to yet. They are beginning to experience a sense of independence, a sense of separateness from Mom and Dad, and that can be very scary for them. They are on the cusp of several developmental milestones. They may be transitioning from 2 to 1 naps. They may be starting to have nightmares/bad dreams. They are beginning to experiment with having their own will and ability. All of these factors can make sleep difficult and scary for them. I think it is important to be firm, but gentle and loving. Remember that you are teaching him to sleep peacefully through the night, and that is a life lesson. A certain amount of crying at bedtime and/or in the middle of the night is more painful to you than to him. Ultimately he will learn that he can fall asleep himself and get himself back to sleep, and that Mommy will come if he really needs her. I think this actually helps in establishing a toddler's sense of self-confidence and independence, and is sort of a milestone in and of itself. In my experience, it usually takes 2 very rough nights, and they usually turn the corner on the third night, so maybe you are past the worst of it.
Hang in there.
Shannon
when our cats cry, we don't discipline them. we do whatever they want, because it is the only way they will stop crying and be quiet. i am thinking this will not be an effective method to raise our child.
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